Just a reminder: the TPP, like most trade deals, is negotiated in secret, but ratified in public. The final version of the deal will be published in 30 days, and then Congress gets 90 days to consider before an up-or-down vote.

The 90-day thing is a result of Trade Promotion Authority granted by Congress to the administration. This is the "fast track" Congress voted to allow the President. It means the bill can't be filibustered.

Will be interesting to see how much of the leaked chapters is still in there. The old one said to make ISP's more liable for data being transfered through it. Imports of copyrighted goods without the authors permission will be made illegal (and they said barriers to international trade was dead). Copyright Terms will be extended in several countries. DRM protection is extended so that those who "enabl[e] or facilitat[e]" circumvention can be charged even if they do not violate a copyright (fun time for researchers). Last it dictate that generic medicine is destroyed if such happen to be found in a country where a patent cover it (all those who complain about Russia burning smuggled food might find this interesting).

In other words a handful of multinationals, prepared to pay millions in endorsements in hand outs to corrupt politicians, have got exactly what they wanted.

So much for the democratic process and in fact stuff the democratic process.

This deal gives a handful few even more power in controlling the world economy. It lets them screw not only the local worker, but the ability to screw ever worker in the world, in the name of prosperity.

While I hate the fact that such an obvious power grab is happening, what I hate more is the youth of today seem to let this shit happen.

Use your voice and vote out that crap!!!

Sadly my prediction will be, nothing unlike the last ten years, where as the minimum wage remains flat (or maybe even declines), the corresponding CEO wage will see ten fold increases thanks to this amazing free trade deal :(

I hesitantly applaud such trade deals. I know that they are rife with corporate subsidies and targeted protectionism of politically favored domestic industries but it is better than the alternative. Interdependence and trade have led to a much safer world and a rising global standard of living for all.

In general, agreements like this seem to be a threat to classical liberalism. Perhaps this is a simplified view but integration is a 7-stage process that ends with supranational organizations and political unions. Or to be specific, an eventual global government rooted more in EU-style bureaucracy rather than (in theory) American-style classical liberalism.

MEP Daniel Hannan elucidated this nicely in a speech regarding the Treaty of Lisbon-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SsAmAgn_i8

Details on the 7 stages and lists of these agreements from the first 2 stages-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_integration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bilateral_free_trade_a...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multilateral_free_trad...

"TPP raises significant concerns about citizens’ freedom of expression, due process, innovation, the future of the Internet’s global infrastructure, and the right of sovereign nations to develop policies and laws that best meet their domestic priorities. In sum, the TPP puts at risk some of the most fundamental rights that enable access to knowledge for the world’s citizens."

https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp

To put those different "Trade Deal" in their context, wikileaks has made a short but informative video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw7P0RGZQxQ

tl;dr - US is trying to rewrite the rules of world trade because they are scared by mounting BRICS influence over the World Trade Organization.

> For the first time in a trade agreement there are provisions to help small businesses without the resources of big corporations to deal with trade barriers and red tape. A committee would be created to assist smaller companies.

That's awesome. But, if you have that much of a problem, why form a committee to help smaller companies- why not just make it easier for everyone? And what good will a committee really do? Why not just say, "We promise to make trading with foreign entities just that- you won't have to deal with the U.S. government and foreign government at all."

Wow: The New York Times is very clear on its political preference: "Donald Trump has repeatedly castigated the Pacific trade accord as “a bad deal,” injecting conservative populism into the debate and emboldening some congressional Republicans who fear for local interests like sugar and rice, and many conservatives who oppose Mr. Obama at every turn."

To any NYT employees who may be reading this: It's 2015, and you're still using graphics (like this trade map) in a way that shows up tiny on mobile devices but can't be zoomed in on -- and you've even managed to thwart the usual "tap and hold, then Open Image in New Tab" trick.

This is the sort of thing that makes people demand ever-ridiculously-huger smartphones.

Does someone know if the treaty has to be ratified by all parties before becoming a law? If it's rejected by Canadian or NZ parliaments, would it still be implemented?

Most of this article is quoting what other people said about the TPP, applying labels to supposedly specific provisions eg. 'foo expert calling it "historic"' etc.

Smoke and mirrors until we can actually read the thing. Or change it ourselves.

As much as I am disgusted by the secrecy of these negotiations, the way they seem to be pushed down our throats, and indeed some of the stuff that was leaked (like the ISDS), there does seem to be some good stuff in it:

"The worker standards commit all parties to the International Labor Organization’s principles for collective bargaining, a minimum wage and safe workplaces, and against child labor, forced labor and excessive hours."

and:

"The changes, which also are expected to set a precedent for future trade pacts, respond to widespread criticisms that the Investor-State Dispute Settlement panels favor businesses and interfere with nations’ efforts to pass rules safeguarding public health and safety."

Who knows? This might actually have turned into a decent treaty. But only because of all the massive criticism on the bits that leaked through all the secrecy.

My favorite part:

"Japan’s other barriers, like regulations and design criteria that effectively keep out American-made cars and light trucks, would come down"

Take our crappy cars Japan!

I also didn't realize the US had a large (25%) tariff on trucks.

Let's say a country wants to pass stronger environmental protections, shorter copyright terms, or some other legislation which would conflict with the TPP. How would they do that? Does the treaty need to be renewed every so often at which point those items can be re-negotiated? Or does this essentially lock in certain legislation such that it can't be changed in the future?

Just yesterday I saw here on HN a news about what the TPP actually means for intellectual property, which should be a quite known problem here in the community. Interestingly enough though that news has only got 10 points and right now it is quite low in the list. The first news today in HN is about CPU caching. What do we need it for if we're losing our rights so quickly?

USTR summary of the deal: https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/press-...

From the candidate who said he wanted to "re-negotiate NAFTA". This is a betrayal to American workers, and it's a disaster for the Pacific signatories.

The TPP should be treated as a Treaty, requiring 2/3rd in congress. The majority of the agreement has nothing to do with trade.

Where's Ross Perot when you need him.

I knew when TPA passed it meant that TPP was nearing completion, they passed TPA (fast-track) because it curtails the power of the congress to stop what I consider to be the unconstitutional TPP. One of the best resources for both documents I have found is the podcast Congressional Dish by Jennifer Briney, who actually takes the time to read the docs and summarize issues.

Personally, I think this is a giant leap towards world government, away from constitutional representation, and away from free-trade and towards the oligarchy-controlled globalism.

I plan on digging into it more and writing a summary of my own, because this is a major issue that we need to push back on hard due to the limitations of the house and senate to oppose it.

"The Trans-Pacific Partnership still faces months of debate in Congress[...]"

So nothing is reached : my understanding of US politics (which is quite shallow I'll admit) is that the congress majority will vote contrary to anything Obama wants.

NONE of the comments defending the TPP reference ANY POSITIVE reasons to support it. They all reject negative claims or argue process ("It is too democratic!" "Amendments are often bad!" etc.)

Obviously the TPP has major costs, both directly and indirectly. IF as I doubt the TPP is worthwhile, then proponents should be able to give examples of its benefits.

How on earth is every country going to pass all these laws? Won't it end up broken to bits or with some countries quitting?

Here is a discussion of and link to the consequences of this "great deal":

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10330126

So is TPP a treaty or merely a "trade deal"? If a treaty then IIRC only the Senate is required to ratify it, not "Congress".

The fact that the negotiations were done in secret probably means that most of the TTP content is being given to journalists by those officially authorized to speak about it. This isn't unexpected, but it does affect how the TTP is framed (even if you don't buy the Greenwald puff-piece-for-access argument).

Just a reminder that this above everything else is Obama's legacy no matter how they try to re-write history.

So if you thought it was bad that the TSA can hold people without even a phone call to a lawyer, wait until they start putting people in prison over the TPP

One positive IMO is that Ford Motor Co doesn't like it.

Ford, the company who famously exported so many manufacturing jobs out of US in the past suddenly grew a heart for the well-being of "future competitiveness of American manufacturing" ? Probably not.

Welp, democracy was nice while it lasted.

R.I.P. democratic free society.

Unless I skipped it, the article doesn't mention anything about the new copyright clauses?

Paywalled

tldr: eventually end more than 18,000 tariffs that the participating countries have placed on United States exports

- Goods include: autos, machinery, information technology and consumer goods, chemicals and agricultural products ranging from avocados in California to wheat, pork and beef from the Plains states.

- establish uniform rules on corporations’ intellectual property,

- open the Internet

- crack down on wildlife trafficking and environmental abuses

Duplicate here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10331299

I know of no other act that would so throughly demonstrate the subjugation of our democracy to corporations than to hold them to a 3-month review of a complete rewrite of the laws that bind corporations.

We are staring at a phase transition.

When this treaty passes, expect the remaining dominoes to fall hard and fast.

_digusting_

Don't worry, Reddit won't have this on the home page for 4-5 hours.