(Replying to PARENT post)

"Don’t ever take a fence down until you know the reason why it was put up"

You can't write a balanced article on car dealerships without researching why these laws were enacted in the first place. So many people here just assume "oh, it's because of greed" - but perhaps you should spend a short time first of all investigating why these laws were created and the problems they were trying to solve.

Likewise, you can't write a convincing article about removing these laws if you don't speak of the reasons why the laws were created. You need to show why these reasons are no longer good.

👤joosters🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

We know why it was put up. This is not a mystery. It was lobbied for by car dealerships in order to procure monopoly status, under the guise of 'consumer protection.'

This is kind of a bullshit response, honestly. This is a very, very well plumbed, documented and reported on issue. The corollary to your statement about fences is:

"About which you do not know, be silent."

Car dealership laws may have served a purpose, but their primary purpose these days is to enrich car dealership owners:

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/02/19/172402376/why-b...

http://www.americanbar.org/publications/franchise_lawyer/201...

Their passing will be a net gain for the consumer.

👤lawstudent2🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

The following [1] is an article that explains a bit of the supposed corruption behind the franchise protection laws. It is from a very biased source (Mother Jones), but the underlying facts can be sourced from many places.

Essentially, California pioneered the idea of protecting existing franchises from being cannibalized by the manufacturer that they were dependent on. But other states have taken the idea to an extreme.

[1] http://motherjones.com/politics/2009/02/why-you-cant-buy-new...

👤venning🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Don't ever take a fence down...

Conservatism is fine as mental shortcuts go, but we shouldn't take every mental shortcut available. We don't actually have to worry about shit that supposedly happened a hundred years ago, if we take the time to look at what's going on now. Right now, there are customers who want to buy, and producers who want to sell. Relaxing dealer requirements would allow those beneficial transactions to occur.

If we're so concerned that unspecified bad shit will happen because who knows it might happen, then simply put a time limit on the relaxed requirements. That is, the law could say that dealer requirements will come back in force in five years, unless subsequent legislation extends the period. In five years, legislators and lobbyists and maybe even the public can conclude "yes the world is exactly the same now as it was in 1920 so we need exactly the same laws", or not.

👤jessaustin🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Nice quote, led me to https://www.chesterton.org/taking-a-fence-down/.

> The quotation you’re looking for is from Chesterton’s 1929 book, The Thing, in the chapter entitled, “The Drift from Domesticity”:

In the matter of reforming things, as distinct from deforming them, there is one plain and simple principle; a principle which will probably be called a paradox. There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.

👤manaskarekar🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

But... Uber! AirBnB! These companies all win by opposing, not just one law, but a baroque edifice of law constructed clumsily over a century. With a little push, it all comes down.

So, now Tesla wants to try selling new cars a new way. By allowing actual information (over the internet) to be freely available about every facet of their car. You like it, you try it in a nearby demo center, you buy it! Like so many other things we buy (like houses)

I'm pretty sure new cars don't need any protected status as a sales issue. In fact, most of us are pretty sure we're not getting responsibly informed by the car salesman in person. Just the opposite.

Lets say it out loud - car dealers think (know) they can make more sales by manipulating us in person. They fear a world where folks make independent decisions. So they make up any excuse to put off that future.

👤JoeAltmaier🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

"Don’t ever take a fence down until you know the reason why it was put up"

This is the most frustrating thing about uncommented sleep() calls sprinkled through a codebase.

👤nothrabannosir🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> "Don’t ever take a fence down until you know the reason why it was put up"

I'm a big believer in Chesterton's Fence too, but what do you do about fences put up by someone who had no right to put it there? If someone erected a wall through the middle of your kitchen, would you have the same reticence to tear it down? The way I see it, the state has no right to enforce a ban like this, and we would be justified in ignoring and circumventing it.

👤Rumford🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

There are several, really good discussions on this topic as well as the issues with the current state of the auto suppliers and their agreements with automakers that stifle progress in development. Unfortunately, I was only able to find one of them (linked below).

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5819825

👤rtehfm🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

That's very logical. But the en vogue approach today is to disrupt everyone out of business because technology entrepreneurs and capitalists are "good guys".

The argument for this stuff is mostly "OMG Tesla is awesome!". But folks forget/ignore that having to deal with A fortune 50 company as a consumer isn't fun either (recall: AT&T in the old days). Your local car dealer may have annoying commercials, but the folks who allowed a defective $0.50 ignition switch to kill people didn't work for a Chevy dealer... They were GM engineers.

👤Spooky23🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I seem to recall that the laws were put in place, at least in part, to protect the dealers who were financing the manufactures, only to have the manufactures come in and sell directly once vehicles were ready.
👤rch🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I think a better analogy would be a bear-trap or a land-mine. The powers granted to government exist to deny life, liberty and property to those who violate the law. They're fundamentally destructive. Although we intend that they only be used in suppressing illegitimate force and fraud, that's not always the case.

Under this analogy, I think it's quite reasonable to question why we have so many of these very dangerous laws just lying around waiting to ruin someone's life. Absent very compelling and readily apparent reasons for keeping them in place, the default course of action should be to disable and remove them as quickly as is safe to do.

"A generation may bind itself as long as its majority continues in life; when that has disappeared, another majority is in place, holds all the rights and powers their predecessors once held, and may change their laws and institutions to suit themselves. Nothing then is unchangeable but the inherent and inalienable rights of man." --Thomas Jefferson on the dubiousness of pre-supposing that perfect and timeless wisdom guided anyone who's ever deigned to enact a law.

👤steamer25🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Um, graft. Like all other cases of protectionism. There was once a problem and someone suggested regulation to fix it and now that the problem is gone the regulation remains.

There are two fundamental issues here. 1) Why is commercial driving complex 2) Do we need a rent-seeking monopoly industry to solve the issues for us?

The answer for #2 is a resounding no.

👤fineman🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Well, we can see how the dealership-less model works out for Tesla and if it causes major problems.
👤Symmetry🕑10y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> "Don’t ever take a fence down until you know the reason why it was put up"

Why would you assume that such a fence was erected for a good reason and not out of malice or for personal gains?

👤gotchange🕑10y🔼0🗨️0