(Replying to PARENT post)

This is indeed very depressing. A very excellent book about the scope of this problem is "The Sixth Extinction" [1]. One crazy anecdote from the book: the author explains how rare it should be to witness any extinction of a species within one's lifetime. The average "background" rate of extinction is something like one per one thousand years. During the course of writing the book, the author personally witnessed something like five species go extinct. It some ways this is an incredible time to be alive, but in many it's the most depressing time one could imagine... ever?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sixth_Extinction:_An_Unnat...

πŸ‘€flippyheadπŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

It's an scary thought: It may not be that intelligent life is so rare in this universe, but rather that it is very rare for intelligent life to sustain itself for long enough to colonize the galaxy..

For all that we've learned and have built, we still don't have a Plan B. No foreseeable alternative to this planet if it goes belly up, one way or the other.

What's worse, we're still not over our politics and economics and artificial borders; all the things that keep us rooted here and actually headed backwards into primitivity.

Even if Elon Musk or some other zillionaire launches a successful extraterrestrial habitation program, sooner or later it will fall prey to the same old national interests from back home.

πŸ‘€RazenganπŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Numerous reports over the past several years have elluded to the 'sixth' extinction. We with this paper, and others there seems to be a lot of evidence that many species are rapidly reaching extinction.

There is a well known species interaction principle, which basically summarizes to - the growth of species A is negatively correlated with the growth of species B. This is especially well defined in predator/prey relationships. But let's just take a simple growth pattern (logistic growth) - which is continous population growth in an environment where resources are limited:

dN/dt = rN[k-N/k]

r - rate of increase N - population size k - carrying capacity

'k' is my favority ecological parameter. It's the theoretical limit an environment can hold a certain population of a species. The idea is, when a species surpasses k, population growth will decrease and/or even become negative until resoures are abundant again (sort of like an asymptote).

I always felt that Humans are the only species that alter their environment's 'k' through technology. For example, houses, heating, energy, etc.. all allow us to live in environments that we might not have been able to. This allows us to expand our population size much higher.

So are we going to surpass 'k' so high, that when we finally run out of resources we drive ourselves and other species into mass extinction? And will the environment be able to recover quick enough for our species population to stablize and recover?

πŸ‘€mcarliseπŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I'm skeptical. Biodiversity, like cute animals, seems like one of those things that's emotionally appealing but may not be important beyond that. That's why scientists use terms like "ecological roulette" and ambiguous statements about how biodiversity actually affects the world and us.

If people genuinely cared about the welfare of animals, they'd have to accept uncomfortable truths like the fact that wild animals suffer immensely, and that nature itself is cruel. In many cases it may actually be beneficial from an utilitarian perspective to have some species die off. Being infested with painful or mind-controlling parasites, and being slowly gnawed to death are ordinary events for wild animals. They suffer some of the worst fates on this planet.

In some cases, like mosquitoes and malaria, killing off species might be the most heroic and useful action in the history of Earth.

πŸ‘€hedgewπŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

The paper

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/353/6296/288

says "Across 65% of the terrestrial surface, land use and related pressures have caused biotic intactness to decline beyond 10%, the proposed β€œsafe” planetary boundary."

How is "biotic intactness" defined?

πŸ‘€_rpdπŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

"We know biodiversity loss affects ecosystem function"

This statement is so weak it's almost a tautology. What do we really know about the effects of biodiversity loss? How sound is the "safe limit" and what do we expect to happen when biodiversity falls below it?

πŸ‘€praptakπŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

If one is interested in a take on this problem by an anthropologist/archaeologist turned epic fantasy writer, touching upon some of the thoughts in the comments here, see: http://www.steven-erikson.com/index.php/commentary-endgame-v....

On the downside this is a rather long essay, on the plus side it does not require familiarity with the author's work.

πŸ‘€gajjanagπŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I wonder if experiential diversity has increased. Surely the decrease of biodiversity is painful for mother earth, but perhaps there is greater variation in the the experiences of all living organisms.

EDIT: Just a runaway thought: why is biodiversity important? If we are optimizing for the general well-being of humans and living beings on earth (which is the frame of reference I am using), then extinction of a species while increasing experiential diversity seems worthwhile.

In addition, the extinction of a species is only sad to those who remember. Many cultures have merged in history to become nations we see today, but nobody misses the oh-so-glory days of a specific Northern German tribe in BC 500.

As to the beauty we experience from diversity of species (seeing them, interacting with them), I would much rather enjoy technological experiences over that natural experience.

Perhaps this makes it sound all too all-or-nothing-esque, but it seems that there is a general assumption that increased biodiversity is good beyond measure.

πŸ‘€avindrothπŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Well that is depressing.
πŸ‘€toodlebunionsπŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Isn't this "extinction" just natural selection? "Winner takes all" is a feature, not a bug of natural selection.
πŸ‘€Hydraulix989πŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Is it possible to use a form of AI to add the required diversity to genes? for example make multiple versions of the Banana plant. I'm sure it's possible but just very far into the future. Can someone with better knowledge confirm?
πŸ‘€kartDπŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Remove the apex predator and biodiversity will quickly recover.
πŸ‘€Reason077πŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Site splashed popup in my face after a few seconds. Closed tab. Annoying begging behavior.
πŸ‘€bborudπŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I read this article while listening to

Where Do The Children Play? - Cat Stevens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a4DCxAi020

As a young adult, what can I do to help?

πŸ‘€peterburkimsherπŸ•‘9yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0