Apple provides a black box with iOS, they have full control. Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative.

A more sensible way of dealing wirh the issue would be to use an open source Android version like AOSP or LineageOS, not run proprietary gapps, and replace its functionality with F-Droid, MicroG and Yalp-store. Your location will stay out of Apple's/Google's hands and you can still enjoy all convenience of a smartphone. Keeping your freedom in your own hands.

> It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone.

Smartphone or not, carrying any phone means providing this information to your carrier at all times.

I don't like the idea of sending this information to anybody, but to be honest, Google is the entity that I'm the last concerned with at the moment. Unlike literally every cell carrier on the market, hey have an excellent track record from a data security perspective, and their entire competitive advantage relies on them not providing that raw data to any third party.

> when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone.

It is only obvious when one enjoys a wealthy life.

There are lots of countries out where people can barely afford something better than a feature phone, and when they do, their hard worked savings are just enough for an Android device.

I don't disagree with your first point, but I disagree with the second. Encouraging everyone to "just buy an iPhone" is a false dilemma of its own.

No. The "obvious" solution here is to regulate companies and give huge fines for doing stuff like this, without explicit user permission. Google went through hell in Germany over its "error" in collecting user data from their Wi-Fi hotspots. Why can't the U.S. do the same in this case?

It's not just an absolute privacy outrage, but also an outrage because Google will drain my phone's battery life without permission, just to serve its own interests.

I have an iPhone specifically because I want to use Google services (Calendar and Hangouts) without associating my entire phone with my Gmail account. A few Android releases ago, I was able to create a new Google account for my phone, with no contacts or anything, and still use Hangouts. It's recently gotten aggressive enough that I'm pretty sure that all my photos, location history, contacts, etc. are visible to my Gmail account and that my Gmail account has permissions to install apps on my phone, so I gave up and got an iPhone, where the only apps that care about my Google account are the Google apps I choose to install.

I tell all my friends / family to get an iPhone if they are upgrading.

I used iOS and Android phones and I like both. However it makes even me nerveous to use a banking application or similar on an Android. Can’t imagine what kind of shit my dad would have running on an Android device with all the fake fishing apps, bloatware, tracking etc going around.

With a non jailbroken iPhone I have a lot more peace of mind.

I don't follow. The alternative to using proprietary software that has proven to be malicious is... to use another proprietary device?

No. The alternative is to install Lineage OS, don't install any Google trash, use F-droid only and a Play Store interface if you have to.

Or maybe buy a Android phone and flash AOSP without Play Services. As much as I like privacy, I am not tempted to buy a $700+ device which seems to be getting costlier and gimped with each new version.

Unfortunately iPhones are way too expensive for most people [1].

[1] http://news.gallup.com/poll/166211/worldwide-median-househol...

I don't think Apple is viable for a lot of users.

For one it's more expensive, I have to pay a hefty price to get a recent Iphone, compared to being able to get a usuable android phone starting at 100€ or less.

Additionally, I'm a primarly linux user and from what I've gathered, Linux is not supported by Apple at all, rather, you have to buy into the Apple ecosystem to properly use an iphone.

Which is the third point; to use an iPhone I need to become part of the Apple ecosystem while most Android phones interop with any OS and Hardware relatively straightforward most of the time.

Non-privacy apologists who make such comments are from a newer internet generation and they have not yet experienced valid reasons why this type of behaviour is an issue.

There is very much a reality of smartphones existing for over a decade before this type of data collection was done. It is in no way required or critical. If it was beneficial, it still should be a setting that can be turned off.

This isn't applicable just to service companies like Google who value user information, even when purchasing from a product company such as Apple has laptops phoning home at an incredibly unreasonable rate compared to MacOS 1-2 versions prior.

It's like having to run a firewall on your own devices to protect yourself from the manufacturer. Can we imagine if our routers do this, or did?

It's amazing to me how many hardcore devs/hackers still are reliant on Google for everything they do, and don't come up with alternative solutions.

It's not like Google has a monopoly on tech knowledge.

I would much rather have a "feature" phone or no mobile at all than have an iPhone again, even if it were free.

Living in a walled garden to escape prying eyes is sacrificing freedom for security.

Did Apple stop collecting that data? Last I heard, you had to opt out of it.

http://blog.chron.com/techblog/2013/10/your-iphone-knows-whe...

"get an iPhone" - what a stupid suggestion. Why do you think it is more secure for god sake? Because Apple told so?

The only way to regain control over SW and to prevent spying and data leakage is by using free software, where you can read and modify the source code, build the firmware yourself. Because as long as there is source released and some company decides to add a tracking functionality, people will notice and make a fork without it.

This is how it works on GNU/Linux for a decade and I am happy I can use it. Now I only wish people stopped buying these smartphones with proprietary blobs tracking them and demanded free software.

Most people are easy (I don't want to say stupid) and don't see the problem unfortunatelly. :(

How many commenters do you think make their money in the tech industry?

Always follow the money.

I've got an idea for the new startup - tin foil hats for your android phone.

Haha, Apple and infosec in the same sentence!

I'm not sure that avoiding (some of) the panopticon by aiding and abetting wealth concentration via child slave labor is such "an obvious answer".

Ignoring the appeal to conjectured authority, the notion that a completely closed box device, by a company that has many revenue streams, solves this problem is absolutely ludicrous. That this ridiculous claim gets posted on an otherwise reasonable site regularly is outrageous.

True. The big difference between Apple and google is that Apple sells you pricey hardware, that just works. In the case of google they sell you. Thus, but Business Model alone you should not trust google if you care about privacy. It doesn’t make sense for them to stop collecting data points about you.

Only governments can tame this beast now, way too big and too rich for any startup.

I noticed several chrome instances running on "Task manager" almost all the time. Used Chrome maybe months ago. So I uninstalled. Who knows what they were doing, collecting. I trust them as much as I (would) trust a hustler on the old 42nd street

> impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone.

What is your life like to where you think not having a cell is impractical.

In any case a smart phone is fundamentally a weak point in privacy/security no matter which one you get.

>the solution is to buy a (much more expensive) phone from this specific competitor

This sounds like advertising. Also, I'm fairly sure that Apple also sells data. Indeed, given current privacy laws, it's basically guaranteed that if a company has proprietary software, it is selling data from that software.

Come on, there is nothing impractical about not using a smartphone. You’re free to invent any excuse you need to justify your use of it, but there is virtually nothing you need a smartphone for.

The obvious answer is not to get an iphone. Today it’s android, tomorrow it’s apple—you’re willingly using a massive closed stack to handle your location at all times. Trust is simply naive.

If you accept you’re trading privacy, security, and money for a massively convenient liability, you’ll be much happier.