(Replying to PARENT post)

Without commenting on Ferrock's merits, I want to say I'm glad every time I hear concrete/cement's CO2 impact addressed. I feel that should be a MUCH bigger part of the conversation about any kind of construction as we look towards very sharply curbing emissions over the next decade.

For example, "the wall". Obviously advocates of the wall for the most part don't give a crap about the environmental impact. But even on the Left I don't hear this cited often as a reason to oppose it (amongst many). The CO2 emissions from constructing a several hundred mile long concrete or steel border would be enormous. (Steel is also a major emissions source.)

Even urbanists, who generally talk a lot about denser construction as having environmental benefits and are kind of "lefty", don't generally talk about the counterposing cost of concrete & steel emissions. I'm not saying it doesn't pencil out, but let's please always talk about it.

๐Ÿ‘คabalone๐Ÿ•‘6y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> " The CO2 emissions from constructing a several hundred mile long concrete or steel border would be enormous. (Steel is also a major emissions source.)"

You probably don't hear this approach taken very often because most people won't consider it persuasive when they remember that we have nearly 50,000 miles of interstate highway and many many times more miles of lesser highways and roads. The concrete and steel needed for a couple hundred miles of wall would be a drop in the bucket of infrastructural concrete and steel across the country.

You can of course argue that every drop counts, but that sort of argument isn't going to impress many people, which explains why you don't hear it very often. Arguments against the necessity of the wall have more bite.

๐Ÿ‘คdarkpuma๐Ÿ•‘6y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> The CO2 emissions from constructing a several hundred mile long concrete or steel border would be enormous. (Steel is also a major emissions source.)

This might still be worth if it prevents illegal migration of 1 million people per year from countries with much lower CO2 emissions per capita (e.g. Venezuela 6t/year) to the USA (16.5 tons/year).

http://greennews.ie/carbon-footprint-of-trumps-proposed-us-m... estimates the carbon footprint of the โ€žWallโ€œ as 48m tons - once. With my simplistic numbers above it saves up to 10.5m additional tons per year (i.e. N times that amount in N years). So its carbon footprint is amortized in less than 3 years.

That said, I have no political opinion about the โ€žWallโ€œ (being in Europe), I just like analyzing both sidesโ€˜ arguments.

๐Ÿ‘คlazyjones๐Ÿ•‘6y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I'm confused by your last point. Are we to assume that people living in denser constructions would otherwise have lived in grass huts? Or, less ridiculously, only pre-existing buildings? I would imagine that the alternative between people living in new apartments in a dense area would be sprawl, where they would instead live in new houses, which are going to (per person) have much higher amounts of concrete and steel used.
๐Ÿ‘คglangdale๐Ÿ•‘6y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Bringing up the wall here is a weird argument. It's sufficiently awful on so many levels that emissions are the least of our concerns.
๐Ÿ‘คXorNot๐Ÿ•‘6y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0