(Replying to PARENT post)
This was a shameful display by the police charged with defending the rule of law in the USA, and even more than protesters, the police who plainly allowed this to happen must be investigated and tried. Whether those are the boots on the ground or the higher ups I have no idea, but this can't be left to stand.
Given what we've seen tonight, this could have easily turned into a putsch attempt, and it would have been very hard to stop it once the mob was allowed inside the building. They could have taken senators and congressmen hostage, they could have forced them to overturn the elections in a mock session, they could have killed dissenters - it was only by luck that it turned out they were disorganized and essentially there for a stunt.
(Replying to PARENT post)
I think there were a number of things going on, but one of the not to be discounted is that individual police officers probably had a lot of sympathy for the protestors. There are pictures of police officers taking selfies with protestors etc. They saw each other as sharing similar politics and backgrounds. Very different from the individual police officers attitudes toward Black Lives Matter protests.
Note I am not saying it was some kind of conspiracy with orders from abovve, I am saying individual police sympathies in aggregate led to much increased tolerance.
In many cases in the USA the cops are quite happy to create puddles of blood, for better or worse (and it's usually worse).
Note I am also not saying they "should" have created puddles of blood here.
(Replying to PARENT post)
No government stands a chance if an any much significant part of population raises against it. I'm not even saying a majority.
What we saw today in DC was not a big rally.
A big rally would look like this: https://i.tribune.com.pk/media/images/Khadim-Rizvi-funeral-2... and like that for a few more city blocks.
Or like this: https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/moscow1991/AP9103...
Or this: https://static.toiimg.com/img/67604038/Master.jpg
Learning living along with the radicals is a good alternative to having a war with them.
(Replying to PARENT post)
The building has security, of course, but itโs not like some kind of off-limits private building.
https://www.visitthecapitol.gov/plan-visit/watching-congress...
That being said, I have never been more embarrassed and scared for politics in this country than I have been today. These people really had no clue about the kind of damage they did today. It is looking like misinformation is the biggest plague of the Information Age.
(Replying to PARENT post)
Oh no, the police let them through, there's clips showing they literally opened the gates, pictures of them taking selfies, etc. It's the "blue lives matter" subculture within those groups, where the police think they're on their side and the protestors think the police is on their side. The policemen involved should be fired and charged with dereliction of duty and conspiracy or something like that. Of course, there should have been a lot more (riot) police active as well, since it was known in advance it was going to be a bad protest.
(Replying to PARENT post)
For many people, the damage that causes to government feeling "theirs" is much, much higher than a violent incident, even more so if we compare it to the way recent protests have been handled.
(Replying to PARENT post)
[0] https://www.dw.com/en/stasi-hq-storming-german-president-pra...
(Replying to PARENT post)
[0]: https://www.slowboring.com/p/maga-mob (see picture of national guard on steps of Capitol)
[1]: https://www.thedailybeast.com/capitol-police-were-poorly-pre...
(Replying to PARENT post)
(Replying to PARENT post)
The bottom line is that the police appeared to be totally understaffed even though the protests had been announced for weeks and were entirely predictable.
(Replying to PARENT post)
> In the end, a guy in buffalo costume fooling around on the senate floor is better than puddles of blood.
This statement is no longer true.
My left leaning twitter feed has many references about how the police removed wheelchair bound protestors some years ago and references to lost eyes during BLM walks/riots and Jane Fonda's arrest on the steps of the Capitole and pictures of police officers in body armour waiting on the steps of the Capitole for BLM marches.
Gunshots were fired in the Capitole, POTUS's message to deescalate started with election results denial, protestors brought down the flag and replaced it with a Trump flag.
It's much more concerning than the buffalo guy fooling around. Reframing the chain of events to that single moment is missing the bigger picture.
(Replying to PARENT post)
- Members of the Senate - Members of the House of Representatives - The Vice President
were in the building during an important legislative event.
We can look back at this and say it a mostly harmless event, but what if one of the protesters was a deranged person or enemy agent with a deadly weapon or decided to start a fire or explosion in the capital? Even in state courthouses they won't allow you in before going through a metal detector. And this was before 9/11. And Americans are well aware of having to take off their shoes before entering their airport gate.
(Replying to PARENT post)
The police executed a lady who was trying to climb through a broken window in the building.
There are photos and videos of her literally dying in puddle of her own blood.
[0] https://heavy.com/news/ashli-babbit/
[1] https://twitter.com/Ashli_Babbitt/status/1345125644888281088
(Replying to PARENT post)
Although this qanon leader made it seem ridiculous, the capitol was attacked by an armed mob, who used teargas and flash grenades to prevent the certification of the next President. A bomb was found and four people died.
Somehow, this is not that bad? How are these people merely funny protesters and not insurgents or even terrorists? The funny guy broke laws that can land him at least 20 years in jail.
Its weird seeing the lackluster police response after the secretive kidnappings, overwhelming force and use of chemical weapons against blm protesters.
(Replying to PARENT post)
I live in Florida, and just a few minutes ago on the way to work this morning I passed a white commercial truck with a large commercial logo on the side. The logo reads "Confederate Electric, Inc." laid over a waving Confederate flag (which is a flag of treason and white supremacy.) Anti-government fervor is right in your face, and taken as a very normal and matter-of-fact way of life here now. Florida's Senator Rick Scott last night voted against allowing Pennsylvania the right to participate in representative democracy in voting for the new president. It's a very serious and very sad thing what's going on in America.
(Replying to PARENT post)
Some people might say the same about the store burners and looters.
(Replying to PARENT post)
(Replying to PARENT post)
Moral hazards aboundโฆ piper going to get paidโฆ
(Replying to PARENT post)
One thought that comes to mind is that I'm sure the most heavily armed nation in the world could have gotten rid of these people in no time, but perhaps they didn't because of the symbolism of the location.
Here in Brussels' main court house (a massive imposing building like the Capitol), a guy once just strolled in and shot and killed a judge (correction: a judge and a clerk, in 2010) and then just strolled out.
The minister of justice said they would not improve security because they wanted the place to remain "of the people, for the people" (paraphrased from memory, it doesn't make total sense but you get the jest of it).
I have friends working at the European parliament where at one time was a group of people protesting against the presence of Marine Le Pen, rocks in hands. There were exactly 2 (unarmed) "security guards" present who told my friend they obviously stood no chance if these people decided to charge. On another occasion 100 Kurdish protestors managed to break in to the building. But they just don't want these places to look like Fort Knox.
In the end, a guy in buffalo costume fooling around on the senate floor is better than puddles of blood.