(Replying to PARENT post)

In reality, all-optical computing is mostly a terrible idea: fundamentally, it cannot reach the integration density of electronics. It boils down to the elementary differences between Fermions (electrons, neutrons, etc.) and Bosons (photons, etc.). Their intrinsic behavior determines the interaction with matter, i.e. conductive/absorptive properties. As a result, optical wires (waveguides) have to be sized roughly at a wavelength (hundreds of nm), whereas electrical wires can be much smaller (<30nm and below). Suppose you want to build an amplifier: all the claimed speed benefits of this optical device would vanish in the path delay of the feedback loop.

But just like graphene, carbon nanotubes, and other fads, you can publish fancy papers with it.

πŸ‘€dogber1πŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> all-optical computing

The keyword here is β€˜all’. There are some things optical computing is bad at. However there are some things it is unparalleled at. For example, light can multiplex. It can have much lower energy losses. It can run at much higher frequencies. It is by far the best way to transmit information at extremely high data rates. Even within a chip, free space optical communication has massive theoretical potential.

Your comment would have been an excellent one without the last sentence.

πŸ‘€VeedracπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

(I swear I’m not in Fridman’s payroll.)

As a layperson I found this episode with Jeffrey Shainline an interesting discussion tangential to the topic of optoelectronic computing. The basic gist was that photons are good for communication, electrons are good for compute.

https://youtu.be/EwueqdgIvq4

πŸ‘€jcimsπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

The flipside is switching speed, optically you can reach THz and more apparently, while heat/capacitance/crosstalk limit electronic transistors IIRC.
πŸ‘€wnkrshmπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

This sounds to me like doctors claiming they know so much about the human body when in reality we are at the infancy of our understanding
πŸ‘€tragictrashπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

It’s not all about computing. It’s about avoiding conversion from electrical to optical signal (and back) at every network node, which is costly.
πŸ‘€rasguanabanaπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Isn't this just a trade off? Is there never a scenario where you would trade transistor density for switching speed and lower power consumption?
πŸ‘€pg_botπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

You can't directly compare optical and electrical compute through looking at the difference in feature densities. Optical compute will most likely take the form of analog waveforms that contain many bits of information, whereas electronics for computing is inherently binary.
πŸ‘€georgeburdellπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

That argument doesn't make sense to me.

You can just choose to use light at a smaller wavelength.

Also, less density by itself doesn't mean less performance, the larger optical components can just run faster to end up with higher overal performance.

πŸ‘€spartanatreyuπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

So they were right about computers the size of entire buildings, they were just off by 100 years?
πŸ‘€jrootabegaπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Not true for plasmonic waveguides which can confine energy well beyond the diffraction limit. But I agree that for now, photonics is just an academic wet dream.
πŸ‘€averne_πŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

If it is lower power, going 3d with it makes more sense though. Brain structures like synapses are ~2x smaller than UVC wavelengths or so (cubing that, ~10x smaller).
πŸ‘€cmaπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Would it be possible to circumvent this problem with something like squeezed light? (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeezed_states_of_light)
πŸ‘€humanπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

While for most things density is good. However if you can have a certain task take advantage of this insane switching frequency there could be reasons to build a room or multi-room sized specialized computer. Not everything needs to be tiny for every application.

Also path delay is not an issue if you have a task that can be pipelined for raw through put. Latency is less of issue in such scenarios.

So claiming there is no use for such things seems a stretch. It certainly can have niche uses. Bigger problem with a lot these papers is their tech needs to be at least reasonable to manufacture to have niche uses.

πŸ‘€anfiltπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I think fermions vs bosons is irrelevant here - you can't build transistors out of neutrons. Sure, photons at these energies are larger, but still can be used for certain tasks, like quantum computers.
πŸ‘€EVa5I7bHFq9mnYKπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Couldn't this perhaps be useful for specialized compute problems that can be represented as a combinatorial system of optical gates/switches? It would be something useful for a specialized subset of problems, sort of like quantum computing.

QC is also not going to replace general purpose electronic computers but augment them for certain classes of problems.

πŸ‘€apiπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

how about for an optical switch? for switching network packets over fibre?
πŸ‘€ankoπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> In reality, all-optical computing is mostly a terrible idea: fundamentally, it cannot reach the integration density of electronics.

It doesn't need this density to be useful or better than electronics in many cases. For instance, photonic quantum computation happens at room temperature, but this doesn't seem like it will be feasible with any other method for long time, if ever.

πŸ‘€naaskingπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I don't know anything about the topic, but it does make me wonder. Our problem does not seem to be a lack of transistors to make all manner of specialized single purpose logic. We do see to be stuck when it comes to single core performance. I wonder if a new technology like optical could be used to add a single core accelerator to supplement existing chips.
πŸ‘€dougmwneπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Well, good thing that the proposed application is about multiplexing/demultiplexing, and not about general computing.

Light has many inherent advantages over electricity for multiplexing/demultiplexing. Also, optical amplification works quite well too, and people use it on every long distance data cable nowadays.

πŸ‘€marcosdumayπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

~400nm for waveguides isn’t that big of an issue. Optical computing may be relighted to stuff like DSP, but that’s still a vast market.
πŸ‘€RetricπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

But isn't a fundamentally different type of computation? A type of computation that might be faster even at lower density?
πŸ‘€adamnemecekπŸ•‘4yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0