(Replying to PARENT post)

The article documents a well-known fact: Since the 1980's, returns on US financial assets have become disconnected from underlying economic performance and cor­porate profits. The question is, why?

No one knows for sure -- by which I mean, a lot of really shrewd, smart, knowledgeable people disagree about the reasons. At one extreme, there are those who feel nothing is wrong, because they believe we're on the cusp of a shift to much faster economic growth, driven by new technologies like AI, quantum computing, cheap sustainable energy, and space exploration. At the other extreme, there are others who think the current arrangement is a result of regulatory capture by the wealthy, at the expense of everyone else. There is no consensus as to why.

The author posits one possible explanation: Judging by trends in corporate behavior, financial market incentives, government regulations, and federal reserve policies, the US economy has become increasingly organized around maximizing asset values and returns on capital independently of growth. Decisions everywhere are now being made, or not made, based mainly on whether they impact asset prices and returns on capital.

In my view, it's not a bad explanation.

👤cs702🕑4y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

P/E Ratios, DCF, Aswath "Dono"daran. These things are all a part of an ancient religion that do not work for growth tech companies anymore (which also happens to include large cap tech companies, by the way). These valuation metrics leave out everything that has to do with the potential market growth and product expansion into new verticals. People look at the S&P500 and keep parroting tired phrases such as "the P/E ratio is now higher than ever before in history", yet they don't consider that a massive part of the S&P500 is now tech growth companies rather than Exxon Mobil like it was 15-20 years ago.
👤bloodyplonker22🕑4y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Indeed, with the exception of the immediate aftermath of the 2008–9 crash, valuations have remained at elevated levels since 2000 (relative to previous history), despite the fact that this period has been characterized by a financial crisis, weak productivity gains, and ongoing narratives of “secular stag­nation.”

Whch goes to show how useless this metric is.

I think such high valuations can be explained by companies having more dominance and less uncertainty, such as through moats, network effects, scalability, and reliable automated recurring revenues, so the uncertainty of competition is lifted, hence higher valuations for big, dominant companies. Also, the end of business cycles. Post-2009 has been a perpetual boom, the longest ever.

👤paulpauper🕑4y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

irrationality is the sign of free and healthy market. ascribing the subjective theory of value I believe value is determined by the individual. so what seems like an irrational move to an outsider looking at the fundamentals is meaningless because what looks irrational to one set of people could be the completely correct decision long term. specifically, the possibility of profit is the immediate value. can this be speculation, yes, but speculation is what drives innovation imo. that's the beauty of healthy market different people trying different endeavors and the cream rising to the top. the reality is irrationality can only last for so long because if a company is an impostor or playing accounting tricks they will crumble(unless government bails them out with taxpayer dollars). so even when the market is overvalued or irrational there are corrections. and this a good thing. there is no such thing as risk free universe.
👤marco_yolo🕑4y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I found this article difficult to read. There seems to be a slightly disorganised approach of jumping between specific companies and macroeconomic ideas, then sweeping generalisations about what "American capitalism" means - a topic which rarely comes with consensus.

It is unclear what the thesis of the article's author is, and why he thinks this evidence is linked to it. Although just personally - if the US does suffers a massive stock market crash then nobody has the right to be surprised.

👤roenxi🕑4y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

    The European Central Bank has also maintained low
    rates, and many European sovereign yields are lower
    than U.S. Treasury yields, but European equity
    valuations are not as high
The reason could be cultural. When I talk to Europeans, they often see investing as "gambling". Which has a negative, scary connotation.
👤ArtTimeInvestor🕑4y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

some people will pump something up just to make money while other won't because they know that their name is important at least to them. when people are cautious about telling you what they do or about their idea, sometimes they are just filtering the money hungry people from the actual believers, people who aren't just there for a quick buck, but are there fir change. if a real startup person, someone who didn't ask for things but still put themself out there or at least presented them self in such a way but seemed "inconsistent" or over explaining something but not in the traditional word throwing brand keyword way, then those people may open up enough to let you in, if that is the case then you may have found a unicorn. but, if you are afraid and which you should be cautious for good reason, than the real individuals may hold back and look for someone who trust them enough to invest. it's tricky but lions sometimes lay low before they feast. if you can find them before they gorilla it on their own, then you may have found something really really rare. but be careful because, they are use to arrows, doubt and people investigating/trying to pry to see if they are "the right fit" and just may be annoyed enough to throw you a false signal out of annoyance and for more fuel to their hungry; which resides not purely in money, but something deeper that few see clearly. but i am just some dude on ycom

if it looks like a duck, is something they may know, but who wants to be used, so i get it

👤adminscoffee🕑4y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> For capitalism to remain oriented toward growth and live up to its “Smithian” justifications, the private sector must be subordinate to and take direction from the state. In liberal capitalism or plutocracy, on the other hand, the oligarchs will use their power to resist development.

There’s some depth and valid points in this article, but the above sentence was my confirmation that the author is starting from a fixed ideological position.

👤jkhdigital🕑4y🔼0🗨️0

(Replying to PARENT post)

The Value of Everything by Mariana Mazzucato may be of some interest:

> In modern capitalism, value-extraction is rewarded more highly than value-creation: the productive process that drives a healthy economy and society. From companies driven solely to maximise shareholder value to astronomically high prices of medicines justified through big pharma’s ‘value pricing’, we misidentify taking with making, and have lost sight of what value really means. Once a central plank of economic thought, this concept of value – what it is, why it matters to us – is simply no longer discussed.

* https://marianamazzucato.com/books/the-value-of-everything

> In this scathing indictment of our current global financial system, The Value of Everything rigorously scrutinizes the way in which economic value has been determined and reveals how the difference between value creation and value extraction has become increasingly blurry. Mariana Mazzucato argues that this blurriness allowed certain actors in the economy to portray themselves as value creators, while in reality they were just moving existing value around or, even worse, destroying it.

> The book uses case studies - from Silicon Valley to the financial sector to big pharma - to show how the foggy notions of value create confusion between rents and profits, a difference that distorts the measurements of growth and GDP.

* https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29502362-the-value-of-ev...

One interesting anecdote she brings up: the US government gave a $456M guaranteed loan to Tesla, which Tesla paid back. But now that Tesla is "successful" and Musk is super-rich, does the US government get any credit for helping its success? How much 'value' did the folks at Tesla create versus the US government in helping to fund it?

Her previous book, The Entrepreneurial State: Debunking Public vs. Private Sector Myths, also has an interesting thesis:

> This book debunks the myth of the State as a large bureaucratic organization that can at best facilitate the creative innovation which happens in the dynamic private sector. Analysing various case studies of innovation-led growth, it describes the opposite situation, whereby the private sector only becomes bold enough to invest after the courageous State has made the high-risk investments.

* https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17987621-the-entrepreneu...

* https://marianamazzucato.com/books/the-entrepreneurial-state

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