> The California Energy Commission (CEC) has invested nearly $166 million and plans to invest a total of $279 million through its Clean Transportation Program to build a network of more than 100 hydrogen filling stations to support the increasingly unlikely surge of zero-emissions fuel-cell electric cars.

For comparison, it has cost Tesla ~$600 million to build out its global supercharger network.

https://supercharge.info/map

One could also say "Subsidies for electric vehicles are clearly beating subsidies for hydrogen vehicles."

All the more reason to tax what you don't want and not subsidize specific solutions. The government should focus on the problem, not on specific solutions to the problem.

Because politically deciding what should succeed is not science. Politicians may not even be aware of a better solution. Or it may not be lobbied as hard as poorer solutions.

Electric is clearly the future of consumer cars but there's definitely a future for hydrogen in industries like shipping. Whether it's container ships or 18 wheelers, hydrogen has many benefits including the ability to fuel up faster. We already have a dual system for two kinds of fuels, gasoline/diesel, I can see a future where the two main types become electric/hydrogen.

The only benefit Hydrogen had over BEV was refueling time. I think what we've learned in the last few years is that charging at home overnight makes up for the perceived disadvantage BEVs have, and we're seeing rapid improvement in DC fast charging times (18 minutes for the 800v Hyundai Ioniq5 and it's platform cousins, for example) for longer road trips. In fact I just drove 450 miles across california in an EV and the car was always done charging before I could get my kid out of the car for a bathroom break and a quick snack and then back in the car.

So if refueling time isn't as big a deal as it was 5-10 years ago, and will be even less of an issue in another 5-10, Hydrogen starts to look pretty lousy actually. For those who own BEV's, having to stop at some point in your day to go to a fuel station feels archaic. Home charging is a game changer.

Hydrogen might still represent a superior source of carbon-free fuel. It's more energy dense than batteries, by a long shot. Containment for hydrogen fuel is a challenge, but they scale better at larger volumes.

Definitely, lithium ion batteries make the most sense for sedans. But for cross-country trucks, trains, and maritime shipping hydrogen has greater potential. You're not crossing the pacific on a battery powered cargo-ship.

Not sure about cars, but I find the idea of hydrogen as a replacement for natural gas in home heating to be more plausible than heat pumps.

The efficiency of hydrogen electrolysis seems low, but potentially not an issue if the absolute cost of wind/solar continues to drop - and it's a storage solution for smoothing renewable production too.

>The study also finds that battery and charging advances will obviate the advantage that fuel-cell vehicles are presumed to have in long-haul logistic operations and the road transport of very heavy goods.

Despite this blurb, I still believe the primary use for hydrogen will be in trucking not in cars. Further more, there are times when some turbines in a wind farm are turned off because consumption has met demand. We could keep those going full time and just convert excess to hydrogen.

It makes some sense. The electric grid will not be able to support everyone going electric for many decades until the wires are upgraded, so there will need to be a good stopgap so the state can reach its emission goals. Hydrogen is one of those stopgaps.

My friend just bought a fuel cell car. Between the tax incentives, tax rebates, dealer incentives, and $15,000 fuel card, the car is almost free.

Hydrogen may have a role to play in aviation, but it has clearly failed for passenger cars and likely trucks as well. The Shell station next to my old office in San Francisco closed for maybe 9 months to be retrofitted for hydrogen. Those lost revenues will probably outweigh the entire revenue from hydrogen over the remaining life of the station. Essentially the only hydrogen cars in California are a small fleet owned by the state itself, and unlikely to be replaced when they reach end of life.

The roundtrip efficiency in hydrogen production, starting from electricity, is pretty bad.

Quick chart here:

https://www.volkswagenag.com/content/dam/online-kommunikatio...

So with a hydrogen car you waste half your input electricity. For a gain in faster refueling?

I stopped reading at "Battery EVs have won the clean car race".

No they have not. There's a couple billion ICE cars on the road. They'll have "won" when EVs far outstrip ICE engines.

The physics of hydrogen powered vehicles just don't make sense. Insane tank sizes at extremely high pressures are needed to get into practical range territory [1]. This is fundamental physics and won't improve over time, as opposed to battery energy density and charging speeds.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ajq46qHp0c

why is diversity of fueling bad in a gilded age?

electric makes more sense for a dying planet with hungry capitals, they can sell expensive batteries and you can rent them, what's non recyclable will end up polluting some 3rd world country, who cares

hydrogen makes no sense, it's basically free and abundant, the lazy people can't profit from it easily, therefore it'll die

Same reason as it encouraged electric cars in the early days. To encourage competition to oil.

Hydrogen as a fuel is a pollution amplifier. See https://www.tinaja.com/h2gas01.shtml

Flying cars are going to need H2!

they should use ammonia it makes much more sense than hydrogen

Thats not wasted money, unlike for example solar roads.

Because government, whether federal or state, never misses an opportunity for wasteful spending.

Every other electric car enthusiastic never questions, why did we invest 100s of millions in hydro power plants. It's all about this exists, we can use it and it's less combustion but never about, how much does it cost me personally to charge my car vs how much does it take you to fuel a car in a gas station, how long do I have to take to make my car go forward etc.

It's always about, this is the newest invention, this is an electric car, this is the good things that is said about it, but nothing about the hell you are in when it comes to charge your car or what you pay for it.

This is why I never get into a, oh you are better off getting an electric car because it is good for the environment discussion without them understanding that you are generating electricity the best way using fuels, it's so stupid, it's bad.