(Replying to PARENT post)

I think it's that you don't notice things that work well. House foundations, light switches, filesystems, silicon manufacturing, water delivery, grocery store logistics, etc etc etc.

These are all things that most people never notice because they just work. It doesn't even occur to people day-to-day that these things can fail.

πŸ‘€yrralπŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

House foundations, light switches, and water delivery, along with the professions that install them, are all regulated and licensed. There is somewhat of a trend for the quality of those things to have regional variation, e.g., lower quality in places that have historically had weak code enforcement and weak unions. And yes, the regulation probably did make those things more expensive.
πŸ‘€analog31πŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

These are all things that most people never notice because they just work.

Taking the example of grocery store logistics, the number of times products are unavailable in my local store makes me thing that's a thing that doesn't "just work". It's something that breaks down regularly, and possibly has lots of people working hard to keep it from breaking even more often.

The same is true for lots of things. Stuff like water delivery and silicon manufacturing doesn't break all the time because lots of people are fighting to make it work, and are actively maintaining it all the time.

I think it's possible that most things don't "just work", and we're just fortunate that there are teams of people out there stopping us seeing the effects of all the failures.

πŸ‘€onion2kπŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Look up "Things seen this week during structural inspections!" on imgur. Some truly horrifying stuff from that person.

For some of these foundations to still be standing and building occupants not to notice anything's wrong ... I can't even imagine how much safety factor is built-in. If we built software with those margins, nothing would ever ship.

Here's a few: https://imgur.com/gallery/Ko2jo4j

https://imgur.com/gallery/fD4jCdc

https://imgur.com/gallery/0JyOXy0

Sometimes they share pictures of foundations completely detached from anything. And it keeps working!

πŸ‘€SwizecπŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

As usual its just how much money you put in to it. We spend a lot of money making sure building foundations and silicon manufacturing works because failing is expensive and dangerous. I don't want to pay double/triple price for a toaster to slightly reduce its risk of failing because I'm happy to accept that on average it lasts a long time but there is some chance it fails sooner. If I'm in charge of buying a $100M building, you bet I want to pay extra to assure it will not fall over.
πŸ‘€GigachadπŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I read somewhere, and this guy was talking about how if you want your house to sell for more, invest in everything you physically touch. High quality doorknobs, faucets, and light switches have a marked impact on our unconscious valuation of a house.
πŸ‘€servytorπŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Check the deltas, the derivative. There exist long lists from personal experiences of things that worked very well and now are of comparatively terrible quality.

The issue is then not just with the item, but with societies that are increasingly accepting low quality: this is a horrible trend, and one side of decadence. You get both, flanked: low quality here for the occasion and decadence around for the trend.

The idea you say of some "distracted" ones "not realizing the failure potential" has a legitimate justification, beyond the simple inattentive, in those (inexperienced) that assume, for a number of reasons (especially including an internal healthy "mindset" of good standards), things are done properly. There is a line in a script for Scorsese that goes like: Β«I'm the guy doing my job, you must be the other oneΒ».

πŸ‘€mdp2021πŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Just to give one example, CI pipelines seem to fail all the time. For closed source and open source project. Just like this, it worked in the last commit and in the new commit it fails despite the test suite passing. The ultimate reason is routine tasks pulling in a ton of complexity of which only a tiny fraction is being used.

At workplaces this creates a lot of absurd situations that eat up insane amounts of productivity.

Or another example, it's pretty common that water pipes don't work as expected. (Congestion, low pressure, undesired backflow, tricky to get water at body temperature...) Nobody really complains, everybody lives with it and learns to completely ignore it. I'm not saying these problems occur everywhere 100% of the time but often enough to show there's something structurally not working

πŸ‘€blablabla123πŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

There's counterexamples for each of those though; just thinking of Flint, Michigan, or the Great Toilet Paper Shortage of 2020. Also I had to replace a light switch in my shed the other day.
πŸ‘€Cthulhu_πŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Many of those things mentioned have changed very little in decades. Some have also been under continuous improvement for hundreds or thousands of years.
πŸ‘€giantg2πŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

As someone who writes software for a big grocery store chain in Germany I'm surprised the logistics work at all. It's a s*show inside once you know the details, but somehow, yes it kind of works well enough as for the customers to not even realize is there.
πŸ‘€Volrath89πŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I think you put too much confidence in other engineering fields. They go wrong all the time (you might notice some when purchasing a house) and changes are extremely slow and expensive.
πŸ‘€markus_zhangπŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Or they just take longish time to fail and then cause lot of issues.

Foundations are such, 70s-80s had certain style which now has been found to lead to issues like mold if done even slightly imperfectly.

Or water pipes from certain age that have already in 20-30s have started to leak, these being copper pipes...

πŸ‘€EkarosπŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

To be precise, that depends on the actual filesystem. But ext4 works really well.
πŸ‘€hutrdvnjπŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

It reminds me of this anecdote (probably a joke):

After the fall of the Soviet Union, UK experts flew in to help with the transition, and one of the apparatchiks asked: "We are eager to try this capitalism thing; now tell us: who is in charge of the daily delivery of bread to London?"

πŸ‘€isolliπŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Cue the ZFS people, homeowners with cracked concrete, and flickery electricity .
πŸ‘€lupireπŸ•‘3yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0