(Replying to PARENT post)

This link comes up in literally every Wayland thread and it is even more bullshit now than it was in 2013 when it was first posted (and it was bullshit then too). It is titled "the real story" but it is quite the opposite.

A few key points:

1) he laughs at how X has a bunch of extensions. https://wayland.app/protocols/ hypocrites much. In 2013, since it was completely unusable, it probably didn't have many. But turns out real world use leads to "useless" features being reimplemented.

2) he complains about how X.org has broad hardware compatibility. As if that's a bad thing. Meanwhile wayland, even now it still doesn't work reliably on half the graphics chips on the market.

3) It complains that certain X features are not fully network transparent. True, but most are and you can detect at runtime and gracefully degrade. Wayland "fixes" this by just dropping the whole feature.

4) it flat-out lies saying the X server does nothing yet it is so much hard to maintain code. The core X protocol provides backward compatibility and is rock solid (and really easy to impelment from scratch btw, someone did it in Javascript for a tutorial for crying out loud). Meanwhile the Wayland compositor keeps accumulating everything because of point 1. Need a screenshot? Add it it the compositor. Need a hotkey? Add it to the compositor. Need drag and drop? Add it to the compositor. Need a notification icon? Add it to the compositor. In X, all those are peer to peer. Graphics are actually a relatively small part of a graphical user interface, something Wayland is still slow to learn.

5) He complains that certain applications are written inefficiently with blocking calls which is inefficient over a network connection. Wayland's calls are ALL blocking and just has no network connection.

6) Complains that X may draw things unnecessarily. Indeed... but there's an extension to disable that. Easy fix. Wayland even uses the same drivers!

๐Ÿ‘คdestructionator๐Ÿ•‘2y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> Graphics are actually a relatively small part of a graphical user interface, something Wayland is still slow to learn.

This I think is a key insight. I talk about this in another post, but I've been working on "porting" parts of Xfce to Wayland, and there are so many things missing in Wayland that have nothing to do with "graphics" that means that Xfce+Wayland will be missing a lot of useful features until/unless Wayland protocols are invented or extended to make them work.

๐Ÿ‘คkelnos๐Ÿ•‘2y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

None of Waylands internal functions between a client and compositor are blocking or synchronous to my knowledge. Generally you fire off a message and will later receive an event back from the compositor, which is happening in an event loop.

There is an exception, which is the explicitly blockling "roundtrip" function(s), but that is meant for special cases only.

Being asynchronous was an design goal for Wayland from the very beginning.

๐Ÿ‘คchlorion๐Ÿ•‘2y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> The core X protocol provides backward compatibility

I had a bit of fun a while back trying to get an old X/11 terminal to work with a modern Linux machine and was somewhat surprised I was able to make it work. Sort of at least. Many display managers didnโ€™t implement the proper protocols, but XDM did and I was able to get it to work at least a few times.

๐Ÿ‘คthe_only_law๐Ÿ•‘2y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

1) no, he complains that X11 has a big core and then extensions. Extensions are fine, but they were unable to kick out parts of the core, because it is the core and something somewhere assumes it is there. So they had to maintain it, despite not being used in practice, except by that little something that nobody can point their fingers at.

2) he talks about obsolete hardware. There's no really a point to support s3 trio, at the expense of support for modern hardware, which works ink wastly different way.

3) That graceful degradation is in practice the same, as just using Wayland. Ever tried to use modern X11 app over network? RDP is vastly better experience, (and RDP support is wip in wayland).

4) This is so wrong so I won't even react to it.

5) Wayland calls do not wait for reply. You rapid fire requests and then collect responses as they come. Heck, you can even get a response you didn't ask for ;)

๐Ÿ‘คvetinari๐Ÿ•‘2y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0