(Replying to PARENT post)

It certainly isn't, and that's especially obvious considering the origin of some of the lore figures like the "Dark Angels" led by "Lion El Johnson," or the heroic stronghold planet of "Caliban" being named after a gay club located down the street from the pub where the setting's original creators would hang out.

Part of the point of 40k (which certainly DOES go over the head of some of the fanbase) is that the humans really are the bad guys. I mean, so are lots of other factions, but that's the dark future of the 41st millenium for you.

πŸ‘€mustacheemperorπŸ•‘2yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

IMO the fact that everyone is a bad guy, essentially, in 40k makes the satire less obvious. Because it is just a crap sack universe, the bad guy stuff they the Imperium does is too easy to write off as just necessary.

IMO they should have made the Tau not evil (make the mind control vibes just imperial propaganda that is the result of actually encountering people motivated to do good).

As it is, the Orks seem to be the least evil faction.

πŸ‘€bee_riderπŸ•‘2yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

40k was intentionally a satirical setting by the authors. Even so it's legitimate to ask why so many people (including those who understand it's satirical/critical nature) enjoy dwelling in a fantasy world of this sort. It is clearly very appealing - there are books and video games, and many people don't even play the table-top game but still collect and build the figures. Why? What is so appealing about theocratic fascism that people would choose to spend their free time and disposable income to dwell within it?

IMHO it's no coincidence that the first human civilizations were autocratic. It's basically the default form of government. This is a very important, if uncomfortable truth. Too often liberal societies fool themselves into thinking that liberty "just happens" and is "inevitable", a feature of the natural world, requiring no effort from the individuals that compose it. This is not just foolish but destructive. It is why, for example, that fascism rises in democracies like the US even though the vast majority do not support it: the majority doesn't bother to vote, thinking they don't have to.

πŸ‘€javajoshπŸ•‘2yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> the humans really are the bad guys

The fact that the Salamanders are praised because they think of the people before nuking a planet really does tell you quite a lot about the shining beacon of Humanity that the Adeptus Astartes are supposed to be.

> I mean, so are lots of other factions, but that's the dark future of the 41st millenium for you.

Basically, it’s a setting where there are no good guys. Except maybe the Tau, but nobody likes them anyway.

The fact that humans are actually quite terrible from a moral perspective, and that most other factions have aspects you can sympathise with is actually very interesting, and makes the universe compelling. For example Nurgle followers really are benevolent good guys from their perspective, and that is very well documented. There is basically only the Drukhari (and tyranids, but that’s different because they have no moral compass whatsoever) that are really purely evil, even from their point of view.

πŸ‘€kergonathπŸ•‘2yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> is that the humans really are the bad guys

Ehhh... maybe that was the satirical intent in the 80s, but it's pretty clearly not true anymore. The Imperium as a whole kinda sucks, but Roboute Guilliman is simply a protagonist, there's no subtlety that the fanbase is missing.

πŸ‘€justrealistπŸ•‘2yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Are there even any good factions in 40k, like at all? Closest I can see are the Tau, and even they have some weird caste eugenics shit going on.
πŸ‘€tomatotomato37πŸ•‘2yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> the heroic stronghold planet of "Caliban" being named after a gay club located down the street from the pub where the setting's original creators would hang out

This appears to be an urban myth. Nobody has ever managed to find any evidence that there was a gay club called Caliban or The Rock in Nottingham, or that anything was named after one.

Lion El'Jonson, though, definitely: https://www.poeticous.com/lionel-johnson/the-dark-angel-dark...

πŸ‘€twicπŸ•‘2yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> which certainly DOES go over the head of some of the fanbase

Most times it's played as a joke. I mean I doubt there is a single living being that goes "yeah 40k imperium is such nice place to live as a normal human".

πŸ‘€ilytπŸ•‘2yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

The only character in Warhammer who is unambiguously good is of course Kremlo.
πŸ‘€gilleainπŸ•‘2yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0