Just to paraphrase a meme "Not a Cell Phone in Sight, Just people living in the moment" : "Not a single SaaS in sight, Just people producing value"

I was quick to pick SaaS as a target, please suggest any better alternatives. I'm trying to convey the idea that technology is not the objective, it's a tool to achieve the goal. So if cassette tapes are getting you there you don't need a fancy software and newest hardware.

In case anyone was unaware, textiles were the original domain of punch cards [0]. (And the mechanical loom was an antecedent of and inspiration for the first general-purpose computer; and not coincidentally Babbage's concept, in the 1830's (!!), was to input machine code via punch card [1]. "We may say most aptly that the Analytical Engine weaves algebraic patterns just as the Jacquard-loom weaves flowers and leaves" –Ada Lovelace (What a lovely metaphor!))

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card#History

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytical_engine

Years ago I got to know a startup that effectively reverse-engineered the punchcard-like code necessary to run about half of the massive textile looms used in factories all over the world. Instead of needing to use the ancient systems / software that the loom ran, they built software that could effectively treat the loom as a printer.

It took them a while to find the right business model, but now they partner with huge brands to offer them textile customization AT SCALE, which previously was pretty much unheard of. - https://www.unmade.com/

It's never wrong to use a Sharp MZ-80K – what a beautiful machine! (BTW, there had been an actual 80-column punched card reader available for this.)

It may be worth mentioning that the tape storage of the Sharp MZ family of computers is exceptionally fast. E.g., transferring MP3 encoded media files won't do. This is also, why floppy disks were never a big thing on that platform, as tape was deemed good enough.

The Sharp MZ-80K (as indicated by its name powered by a Z80 microprocessor) was originally sold as a kit computer, but, unlike the more common variety, it came in larger pre-assemblies, like the entire monitor assembly, etc. (No soldering required.) Outside of Japan, it was usually sold fully assembled, often with RAM already populated to the full complement of 48KB.

> [deleted]: If anyone (white hat) can hack this place - upload some really beautiful patterns that certain [cosplay/furry/pokemon/whatever] types would love then have those communities purchase these patterns and keep this going.

I live by a different Japanese small town famous for its textile industry and there's at least one place still similarly using punch cards and tape. They exhibited some of it and a contemporary art piece made using it during the annual Fuji Textile Week last year.

Separately I also met an artist who's doing binary-hacked glitch embroidery and knitting with older machines in the area. I think they have stuff for sale from time to time and would be open for commissions. There's some pokemon/otaku/tech-related stuff if you dig through their insta.

https://nukeme.nu/tagged/Glitch%20Embroidery

https://glitchknit.jp/

Before anyone dismisses the Japanese for using old tech - whether it’s fax machines or funny looking flip phones, I’ll say that it’s truly admirable of them to always focus on the problem than getting excited over new tech.

Has that prevented them from advancing as a society? No. Has that prevented new innovations? Certainly not. This has likely prevented a lot of devices from being decommissioned and adding to our recycling woes and landfill. For contrast, a typical North American company refreshes all computers every 3 years. Imagine that.

I am sure that where it matters, companies are using newer tooling, but where the benefits are minuscule - there’s no pressure to change. Japanese people can take comfort in knowing their favourite hardware will be supported for a very long time.

Interesting that it's just this one step that they stick to the old 80s technology. The rest of the design, inspection, weaving, cutting, etc. seems to have moved on, understandably.

By the way, did you know that (some) modern looms use jets of air/water to send the weft thread across the loom? No more shuttles or mechanical passing of the thread. Amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVWkZiHjreI

Beautiful video, in more ways than one. This is how machines are meant to be used: augmenting humans rather than enslaving them.

Also, I have always felt that people who design industrial automation machines are mad geniuses. They just seem so complex but work!

Tape cassettes, as it happens, are actually hip again. They make cassette players now for a modern tech stack, with bluetooth etc. Bandcamp is full of artists selling tape, and sales of audio cassette tapes have been up year-on-year every year lately. More and more manufacturers are starting to spin up production again [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassette_tape#21st_century

Really bad/misleading/factually-incorrect headline. They use a 40yo computer to control an industrial machine for making cloth, not to design clothing. Which is pretty common.

AFAIK, punch cards were used in the textile industry long before computers came to town. It’s just very convenient to map patterns. If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it:)

If you are in Japan, I would highly suggest you visit the Toyota museum in Nagoya. Toyota started as a loom manufacturer and the museum has a ton of working artifacts (I recall one is from the 1600s).

They have a tour that shows you the full evolution of the loom technology including one operating by punch cards.

I had no idea until I visited the museum shortly before COVID

Just to clarify, they are using the cassettes and old computers to create punch cards required to run older machines they are using. They are also using modern equipment and computers. This is fairly common in industrial manufacturing because the cost of replacing or retrofitting expensive equipment is high not because older = better (although I'm sure sometimes that is the case).

They make kimonos.

I don't know the specific requirements for kimono fabrics, but I suspect there are. Accordingly, they use special weaving machines. These machines are clearly made to order in extremely limited quantities. Tape cassettes and punched tapes are attributes of the control subsystem of these machines.

For fabric design, they use Photoshop (is it like Photoshop?) and a completely modern PC.

That is, they do everything right and in the right way. There is no point in changing machines if the machines are doing their job, especially if they are doing their job according to unique requirements.

Upgrading this system just for the sake of upgrading will either bankrupt the company or lead to the creation of something completely different that is clearly not wanted by consumers.

But here's what's really interesting - what heads are in their tape recorders and what kind of tape do they use in cassettes, that all this can withstand the production cycle? This is really impressive.

The patterns are read using a Z80 Sharp MZ computer (MZ-80K?) from 1979. Nice

This channel (Byte Attic) have a restoration video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiAL5LCQ7Ds

Japan has one of the most legacy tech as they probably automated them first and an ageing population probably is resistant to change. They still use fax and telegrams quite a lot

The punch card is the "design". From the video, it isn't user friendly to edit on terminal. (btw, it is rare to see full English UI in Japan) They can just replace the part to create the punch card. But the textile machine is totally fine to keep consuming punch card.

Tape is fine too but it is risky because factory may stop creating tape.

What is the original title of this video? It's weird that YouTube changes it from Japanese. Like, let me decide if I want it translated or indicate it has been translated??

And was this editorialized from the original?

FF 2090: Japanese textile factory still uses js and react [hologram]

Very clickbait heading. The 40 your old computer is used for the loom pattern. The cloths are designed and patterns cut from modern computers and software.

Pretty sure similar punched cards are used in Indian textile companies even today.

There's a significant amount of heavy machinery made in the late 19th/early 20th century still in use in the US too, although I suspect they're more like the Ship of Theseus now. The cost of replacement (especially for highly specialised machines), and the cost of downtime (lost production), strongly biases the decision towards maintenance rather than replacement.

I recently bought some 25+ year old DOS PCB pick and place machines[1]. These machines are basically considered scrap (by some) but they allow me to assemble a ton of boards automatically.

Its incredible how these machines achieve so much with <64MHz CPUs

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27JxtoDPnTI

Also Polish auto repair shop using Commodore 64: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12604414

I also remember a discussion here about a camp site that was still using a booking system on an eighties computer, but couldn't find it.

If you enjoy this type of slow film making, this genre of “a day in the life” of Japanese kitchens I find quite meditative and inspiring.

https://youtu.be/PC2rAUdpGXM

Then you see that rotating machine that is made by Suzuki (machine that rotates threads, I'm no expert so no idea). And then you realize that every Japanese major industrial company produces literally everything

If it ain't broken...

Be sure to turn on closed captions!

Japan is fascinating to me because obviously the culture puts a huge emphasis on traditions. And that is fine. It also seems to me that at some point the fear of not "refreshing" the old ways leads to anachronisms like these.

This is not just a one off, as we know - Japan is still a heavy (the only?) user of floppy disks and fax machines.

Sometimes traditions need to be revisited - and then retired.

Makes perfect sense to me! If your current solution continues to work well, you shouldn't take on the costs and risks of switching to a different solution.

I have a server that's even older than that in my home network. Why? Because it continues to do its job well. The cost (in time) and risk of of swapping it out for newer hardware makes doing so the less appealing choice.

Ooh. That looks like a Sharp MZ-80K. I spent a ton of time programming one of those and own a still working one. Lovely to see them in action.

I wonder if at the time this was a bleeding-edge factory that was adopting these state-of-the-art practices and it has stayed that way since? Or did it only just get the tape cassette in 2003? :)

Interesting. I wonder if non-tape- based things are any more efficient, or is the z80 based system peak-tech for weaving.

There is something comforting about machines whirring, knocking, click clacking. The physical card printed, cut, and handled by hands. There should be a name for that feeling, like being in an old book store, being able to touch everything, read the books, flip them back and forth.

This reminded me of another Japanese company called Takahashi and their video[0] on making telescopes.

[0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC0dBh53dyI&t=9s

I use pen and paper

In the scene after the punch card workflow is shown, we see a modern PC with recent software & bespoke input devices. It seems like this factory is pragmatic in their choices which is certainly something to be celebrated.

I didn't know Brother made sweing machine, I though they only make printers.

First Reaction: "Secure by default, and zero remote holes since..."

I heard from some friends that some Chinese factories are still using machineries brought by the Japanese (when they invaded China) and even Imperial Germany (some 190x machines).

The Old School is the Best School.

Some problems don't need to be refactored, re-implemented, upgraded, and put in the cloud with a handy mobile app for your convenience.

Similar vibe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35040547

Am I the only person that on being presented by a YouTube and immediately on a link like this, just hits back and closes the tab?

The 40 year old computer is the irrelevant part. The craftsmanship and attention to detail, by these women, is the real story.

Does anyone know how they design clothes now? What are the modern processes?

That Youtube channel has 448K subscribers with 177,105,580 views for just 148 videos. Impressive !

Realistically how long would it take to modernize the software while keeping the old hardware?

Robust enough to keep working, so why replace it.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Reminds me of the Linotype - mechanical perfection for a single task.

This is really beautiful.

OP here. How/why was the post title changed?

If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Surprised they don't use Jaccard looms

People still use textile? It's so much easier to just texture map your avatar.

Oh, but wait, don't tell me; they actually go outside. LOL!

Not that surprising when you consider that some Japanese companies still weave jeans by hand.

Japan is an interesting mix of old and new.

Oh come on. In other news, Bank Of America is still using IBM OS/390.

Keep it simple and stupid

They're clearly missing out because they've not incorporating Scrum,AI (specifically LLMs), Tesla bots, self-driving cars, cloud and a hot new JS library.