πŸ‘€cjbprimeπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό366πŸ—¨οΈ204

(Replying to PARENT post)

MIT Played a key role in Aaron's Death: http://gothamist.com/2013/01/15/aaron_swartzs_lawyer_mit_ref...

They refused to sign-off on any deal that did not involve Jail time. This was THE one point that weighed more on his mind than any else per the recorded statements of his partner.

MIT's pig-headedness in this aspect really destroyed any respect I had for that institution. JSTOR made a much more reasoned statement http://docs.jstor.org/summary.html - Clearly indicating that they had NO INTEREST in any further prosecution (since they were the primary wronged party).

πŸ‘€suprgeekπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I'm still more disturbed by the laws in play.

Aaron was facing a cumulative maximum penalty of 35 years in prison.

The roommates of one of the Boston bombers was only facing 25 years in prison[1] if found guilty of helping Dzhokhar Tsarnaev dispose of a laptop, fireworks, and a backpack in the aftermath of the bombings.

I understand it's not a straight comparison, but no matter how I try to re-arrange those numbers in my head, I can't reconcile the impact to punishment.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Marathon_bombings#Dias_K...

πŸ‘€SmerityπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Suicide is completely a personal choice. MIT had no reason to try and defend an outsider who hijacked part of their network, and trying to make them seem like they caused him to hang himself smacks of tunnel vision.

It's a natural response to a suicide; we try and search for something to blame. But unless you argue that MIT should have known Aaron was mentally unstable, saying MIT "caused" him to kill himself is illogical. People who commit suicide may desire to because of what they feel about their lives, but the final decision is one's own.

It's sad that it takes a death to bring attention to the IP issues that Aaron's trial had raised.

πŸ‘€vexπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Several comments have talked about 35 year or longer potential sentences.

Those big numbers come from simply taking the maximum possible sentence that can ever be given out for each charge, and adding them all up.

There are two things that make that unrealistic in most cases. First, the defendant is almost always charged with several similar or related crimes that have mostly the same elements. If convicted on more than one charge from such a group, they are only sentenced for one of the convictions.

Second, the sentence takes into account the severity of the particular acts that constitute the crime, and the prior criminal record of the defendant. To get the maximum possible sentence you'd need to have gone way beyond what ordinary violators of that particular law usually do, and you'd have to have a serious criminal history.

What Swartz was actually facing if he want to trial and was convicted was something ranging from probation to a few years, depending on just how much damage the court decided he caused.

If he took the plea the prosecutor was offering, he was facing up to 6 months.

Details with citations on the above are available at [1] and [2].

In the dozens of discussions of the Swartz case we've had in the last year here, the 35 year or 50 year myth has been repeatedly busted. Yet it keeps coming up in each new discussion--often from people who were in some of the previous discussions! Why is it so persistent?

[1] http://www.volokh.com/2013/01/14/aaron-swartz-charges/

[2] http://www.volokh.com/2013/01/16/the-criminal-charges-agains...

πŸ‘€tzsπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

What were MIT's obligations to Aaron? While there is a whole lot that MIT could've done to help Aaron (even if only just taking the JSTOR route and stating they were backing off entirely) and that would've been commendable, I don't really see why MIT had an obligation to help Aaron, so I have a hard time holding MIT morally culpable.

If anything, I'd think screwed up laws and an overzealous prosecution are the real issue here, and I'm not sure what pointing fingers at MIT accomplishes.

πŸ‘€rodrodrodπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Bostonian of the Year!! This makes me profoundly sick.

"United States Attorney Carmen Ortiz, in the midst of a prosecutorial tear that would lead the Globe to name her 2011’s Bostonian of the Year, held up Aaron’s indictment as a warning to hackers everywhere."

πŸ‘€xacaxuluπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I wouldn't call MIT "responsible" as that would open the door to a world of "look what you made me do" thinking. It is sad that MIT had a chance to be differnet than the paranoid schizophrenic mess that the US security apparatus has become and reaffirm themselves as champions of free thought and somewhat rebellious free thinking. They chose to do the opposite. That is very sad indeed.
πŸ‘€noonespecialπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

MIT clearly did something wrong here... The Secret Service seemed to get involved by accident, due to the fact MIT do a lot of "Super secret stuff, that China want". MIT should have immediately moved to limit how seriously this was taken, when they understood who was perpetrating it (and why). Kind of like if a kid accidentally (because he didn't know it was one) spray pants the side of nuclear missile silo, we would treat them differently to someone trying to sabotage a nuclear missile silo (I hope!)

The article hinted at the fact MIT ran an "Open network" which ran counter to the charge of "unauthorised access". MIT should have commented on that in their report.

MIT worked with the prosecution to help build there case, that's fine, but talk about "neutrality" as that clearly isn't.

Anyone arguing that MIT didn't do anything wrong, I would say, just isn't rational.

But we still haven't gotten causation (Are they to blame for Aaron's death?).

There is always some people who say that suicide is only the victims fault, no one else. But do you apply that to people being tortured? Or people with no hope to live out their life as they thought they would. Was it the jews fault for committing suicide rather than face the camps?

Now applying that extreme analogy to the US legal system, and in particular, the plea bargain system... isn't it the same dynamic? They want to make the proposed outcome so bad that you take an easy way out. In the process they destroyed parts of your life (in Aaron's case it was his friendships, girlfriend, family, wealth).

Thus, aiding this system (the prosecutor) (as MIT did) certainly deserves some of the blame, no?

πŸ‘€1stopπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

What makes me absolutely, terribly sick is the extent to which the USG waves its hands to dismiss the seriousness of the extent and reach of the NSA's domestic data gathering activities and at the same time deciding that Swartz's data gathering was worth going to the mat over.
πŸ‘€freejackπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

[U.S. Attorney Stephen] Heymann subpoenaed Aaron’s girlfriend, Quinn Norton, to give grand jury testimony. That was bad enough, but even before the jury convened, Norton agreed to meet with Heymannβ€”against Aaron’s pleas. Norton would say later that she thought she could talk Heymann into dropping the prosecution. Instead, he grilled her until he had what he needed: Norton mentioned that Aaron had coauthored the Guerilla Open Access Manifesto (remarkably, the prosecution had failed to read through the blog posts of the Internet activist they had intended to charge). For Heymann, this was a key piece of evidence: It established a motive.

I never realized Norton agreed to talk with the prosecution against Aaron's wishes.

πŸ‘€bumbledravenπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

It's just a sad story. I do know one thing, don't tell your significant other, or anyone else Anything-- "Instead, he grilled her until he had what he needed: Norton mentioned that Aaron had coauthored the Guerilla Open Access Manifesto "

I am on the end of a civil suit. It's nothing big, but I have never felt so helpless. I can't imagine what Aaron was feeling.

I don't know if MIT was complicit, but a few things suprised me--50k charge to public libraries.

πŸ‘€marincountyπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

What's clear is that the prosecution only got out of control once it got into the hands of the federal government, at which point Ortiz and Heymann threw the book at Swartz when he wouldn't take a plea deal.

Swartz's death was the result of institutional failure. The criminal justice system and more broadly the US government are very sick institutions if their standard operating procedures can result in a tragedy like this.

πŸ‘€abvdaskerπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

What would be a less strict university in USA, more libertarian, less police state if you would?
πŸ‘€puppetmaster3πŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

MIT's report on their involvement in the prosecution of Aaron Swartz: http://swartz-report.mit.edu/
πŸ‘€inspectahdeckπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

> They watched via video feed as their suspect removed the laptop, this time with a bike helmet obscuring his face.

Aaron Swartz did not attempt to obscure his face. The DOJ just chose a screenshot of when the helmet happened to pass over his face, making it falsely appear as though he was. That's malicious on the part of the DOJ, and that's slanderous and sloppy journalism on the part of Janelle Nanos and Boston magazine.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/12/swartz-video/

πŸ‘€esbransonπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0
πŸ‘€cowmixπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Frankly, my main takeaway with respect to Aaron Swartz was his willingness to terribly damage the people close to him. Could he have had insufficient self esteem to understand that consequence? Because if the answer to that is no, his behavior becomes sociopathic and all the blame that is being thrown around is misdirected.
πŸ‘€DonGateleyπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Quinn Norton proving one again that you should never talk to the authorities. Especially not without a lawyer.
πŸ‘€epipsychidionπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Universities are supposed to protect our youth and foster freedom and free academic exchange. Shame on MIT.
πŸ‘€sjg007πŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Whats disturbing is that law turned a blind eye to one of America's most promising young men- And No One- No One cared to do a thing about this. History will remember this as a shameful moment when the deprived world lost a messiah when the rich and influential were busy playing poker
πŸ‘€codecrusadeπŸ•‘11yπŸ”Ό0πŸ—¨οΈ0