(Replying to PARENT post)

Theres tons of successes, we just refuse to count them. Photoshop (as hinted in the article), is a super special purpose language for doing image operations. It no longer "looks" like coding, so we don't count it as coding for the masses. Excel is a much more general purpose language used by tons of "non-coders" (and arguably the most popular programming language on earth). Again, doesn't (often) look like normal programming, but then again, shouldn't this be expected? If it looked like normal programming, it would be normal programming and not successful.
๐Ÿ‘คtolmasky๐Ÿ•‘10y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Excel is a perfect example. The core Excel experience is basically functional programming on a virtual machine with a matrix address space laid out visually right in front of you. It even looks like traditional programming if you dive into the VBA stuff, which plenty of non-technical specialists, including MBAs and managers, do on a regular basis in the pursuit of solving their problems.

Any specialist user willing to invest some time in learning their tools can do this. A culture develops around it.

And replying to parent: those efforts around teaching 'civilians' to code are probably misguided. The investment needs to be in adding scripting and programmability into existing line of business tool, not on encouraging people to sit in front of an isolated REPL disconnected from any business value or context.

๐Ÿ‘คscrumper๐Ÿ•‘10y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Two other more contemporary examples are the Android app Tasker, and the website IFTTT ( https://ifttt.com/ ).

There's something about calling it programming that turns certain people off. I remember a story about a freshman in a physical mechanics class that complained about all the MATLAB code they had to write. The professors retort was that they were free to use a slide rule instead, and that particular freshman stopped complaining.

But you're right. The mere act of calling it programming is somehow a problem. It's as if doing programming pigeonholes you into being a programmer until the end of days.

๐Ÿ‘คfragmede๐Ÿ•‘10y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I concur with your assesment. The point is not to turn a syntax into an AST into processor code. The point is to provide things of value and 'easy' computing platforms targeting users who are not professional programmers create tremendous amounts of end user value.

Sadly, when I point this out professional programmers often go 'pffft - that's not real programmming' as if being knees deep in stack traces and gigantic code bases was a something with intrinsic value.

๐Ÿ‘คfsloth๐Ÿ•‘10y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I'm not sure I agree with you about Photoshop. Perhaps (probably) there are photoshop macros or pipelines that are closer to programming, but most people use Photoshop purely in an interactive mode. They enter commands directly, and the logic stays in the users' heads, not in the computer.

Photoshop is more like a REPL tied to an image-processing library than it is a programming language.

๐Ÿ‘คForHackernews๐Ÿ•‘10y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Remember when search engines had Boolean operators?
๐Ÿ‘คirq-1๐Ÿ•‘10y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

I would say that Photoshop is a toolbox of predefined tools. If using that is coding, then people are also coding when they choose and use a screwdriver, some sandpaper, a hammer and some glue in succession from their physical toolbox to get a job done. That the operations happen electronically and that they are implemented as complex mathematical transformations of pixels doesn't change that.

Excel isn't much different in my view: most people are only using a very limited set of predefined tools to get a job done. Often badly: it is well known that there are many bugs in important, company critical Excel sheets. Excel seems like coding because it is mostly used to perform the fundamental mathematical operations we all associate with coding. But if that is coding, then so is constructing a Rube-Goldberg machine for a specific task from the parts you happen to have available. A nice exercise in problem solving under constraints. Which certainly has something in common with coding. But that doesn't make it coding.

๐Ÿ‘คConfusion๐Ÿ•‘10y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0

(Replying to PARENT post)

Yep, great examples. Also, pretty much any experienced Photoshop user will create their own actions to automate common operations. And then you have things like workflows in Alfred.
๐Ÿ‘คsteveax๐Ÿ•‘10y๐Ÿ”ผ0๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ0